[Starsector Mods][0.95.1a] Modern Carriers 1.9.5

First, the .zip file only has a data directory, so you have to create a new mod folder and put said data folder in it for it to work. Takes like five seconds to make a new folder, tops, but it's a QoL thing.

Second, the Skirmish Carrier Core seems brutally strong on paper. A 100% boost to top speed AND acceleration? Haven't yet tried it out but I imagine this makes bombers brutally powerful.

I do have some feedback, however. I'm looking at these from a non-built-in hull mod perspective, as that kind of breaks the system. Also, don't take my feedback as gospel, I'm no Megas when it comes to min-maxing killing efficiency, but these are my feelings.

The OP costs for these new hull mods is all over the place - the Skirmisher Carrier Core for 10/20/30/40 OP that grants 100% faster fighters (that also turn at half the rate) probably isn't worth the OP sink. If I may suggest something else: nerf the speed/acceleration buff to +50%, remove the turn rate penalty, add in a new buff that removes the flux cost for setting fighters to Engage, and reduce the OP cost to 10/15/20/40. No flux cost means the carrier won't lose it's 0-flux speed boost, so it can really run all over the place while the fighters can get to and from the carrier faster.

Fighter Command Overclock costs 10/20/40/60 OP for faster replacements, SO engines, and SO peak-performance-time, also doesn't quite feel right, but for a more complex reason - SO on regular combat ships improves the up-front damage of the ship, while this equivalent carrier SO improves the long-term damage of the carrier. But because it also slaps on SO PPT, there isn't any long-term for this carrier for them to take advantage of. You can also install it on capital ships, which doesn't quite fit with the balancing of the game currently as regular SO can't be installed, either. Not sure what to do about this one, truth be told, if anything at all.

Swarm Carrier Core seems the most balanced of the bunch - 20/40 OP for 1/2 extra fighter bays with a reasonable (?) downside. Converted Hangar equivalent for carriers.

Then there's the Bastion Carrier Core. 10/20/30/40 OP to make your fighters near-sighted bricks - fighters that are already tanky become nye-indestructible. I'm not sure how the math is handled with the -50% damage taken, but I think it favors fighters with high armor values due to how armor damage reduction is calculated. If it turns out to be too good, then changing it to -50% shield and hull damage taken could reduce it's power a touch, so low-shot-damage weapons like the Vulcan and Flak Cannon actually stand a chance at swatting the bowling balls that are Bastion'd fighters. The missile rate of fire buff is also an interesting choice, as the effect is minimal on bombers and has almost no effect on other fighters (most use the reload system rather than refire delay) - the only two fighters I can find that would be meaningfully affected by this are the Roider Dragline with it's infinite-ammo Annihilator Pod and the Roider Bolt Interceptor with it's 3.3 refire Zap SRM launcher.

Finally, you could improve the descriptions the Swarm and Overclock mods - the replacement time modifiers are vague references. However, the descriptions for the other mods are sufficiently detailed to know what you're getting.

Overall though, I do like the flavor this gives carriers. More options other than just slapping on Expanded Deck Crew, a couple bombers, and calling it a day - more specialized fighter swarms, battlecarriers, kiting carriers, and more ideas I probably haven't thought of it.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I do love battlecarriers!

Side note: the Roider Bolt Interceptor with the current iteration of the Skirmisher core boosts their speed from 500 to 1000. Safe to say it's absolutely hilarious to see these things nyoom across the map. The Roiders apparently have a lot of meme potential with this mod, heh.

I like the concepts of the new Carrier Cores! The Bastion core especially; this really lets you build a for a battlecarrier. Slap it on a Mora with a couple Roider Rocksaw wings and a Dragline, and you've got a dangerously powerful brick that can dish out damage like no one's business, if a bit near-sighted. 50% more range on the clipped Assault Chainguns, Vulcan Cannons, and mini-Sharpshooters? Check! +50% rate of fire on the Dragline's infinite-ammo Annihilator Rocket Pod? Check! -50% damage taken on already ridiculously tanky fighters? Check! Plus, with how tanky these fighters are, you don't even need to install Expanded Deck Crew, opening up more OP or another built-in mod. Don't even need to install any PD as the Draglines with IDPAI already built in have 900 range min-Sharpshooters. Things much greater than petty pirate warlords shall be broken upon the anvil of this Mora...possibly too much for it's own good, heh.

I do have some feedback, however. I'm looking at these from a non-built-in hull mod perspective, as that kind of breaks the system. Also, don't take my feedback as gospel, I'm no Megas when it comes to min-maxing killing efficiency, but these are my feelings.

The OP costs for these new hull mods is all over the place - the Skirmisher Carrier Core for 10/20/30/40 OP that grants 100% faster fighters (that also turn at half the rate) probably isn't worth the OP sink. If I may suggest something else: nerf the speed/acceleration buff to +50%, remove the turn rate penalty, add in a new buff that removes the flux cost for setting fighters to Engage, and reduce the OP cost to 10/15/20/40. No flux cost means the carrier won't lose it's 0-flux speed boost, so it can really run all over the place while the fighters can get to and from the carrier faster.

Fighter Command Overclock costs 10/20/40/60 OP for faster replacements, SO engines, and SO peak-performance-time, also doesn't quite feel right, but for a more complex reason - SO on regular combat ships improves the up-front damage of the ship, while this equivalent carrier SO improves the long-term damage of the carrier. But because it also slaps on SO PPT, there isn't any long-term for this carrier for them to take advantage of. You can also install it on capital ships, which doesn't quite fit with the balancing of the game currently as regular SO can't be installed, either. Not sure what to do about this one, truth be told, if anything at all.

Swarm Carrier Core seems the most balanced of the bunch - 20/40 OP for 1/2 extra fighter bays with a reasonable (?) downside. Converted Hangar equivalent for carriers.

Then there's the Bastion Carrier Core. 10/20/30/40 OP to make your fighters near-sighted bricks - fighters that are already tanky become nye-indestructible. I'm not sure how the math is handled with the -50% damage taken, but I think it favors fighters with high armor values due to how armor damage reduction is calculated. If it turns out to be too good, then changing it to -50% shield and hull damage taken could reduce it's power a touch, so low-shot-damage weapons like the Vulcan and Flak Cannon actually stand a chance at swatting the bowling balls that are Bastion'd fighters. The missile rate of fire buff is also an interesting choice, as the effect is minimal on bombers and has almost no effect on other fighters (most use the reload system rather than refire delay) - the only two fighters I can find that would be meaningfully affected by this are the Roider Dragline with it's infinite-ammo Annihilator Pod and the Roider Bolt Interceptor with it's 3.3 refire Zap SRM launcher.

Finally, you could improve the descriptions the Swarm and Overclock mods - the replacement time modifiers are vague references. However, the descriptions for the other mods are sufficiently detailed to know what you're getting.

Overall though, I do like the flavor this gives carriers. More options other than just slapping on Expanded Deck Crew, a couple bombers, and calling it a day - more specialized fighter swarms, battlecarriers, kiting carriers, and more ideas I probably haven't thought of it.  If I haven't made it obvious already, I do love battlecarriers!

Side note: the Roider Bolt Interceptor with the current iteration of the Skirmisher core boosts their speed from 500 to 1000. Safe to say it's absolutely hilarious to see these things nyoom across the map. The Roiders apparently have a lot of meme potential with this mod, heh.

Thanks for the feedback.
This mod was not balanced in regard of any mod fighters. Vanilla fighters using bastion without the range help are not doing anything useful.
If needed I may add a SO-similar range restriction to make sure mod fighters are not sniping across the map.

SO Carrier is currently asserting instant replace - the description was vague because there were several attempts but few works.
Instant replace means bombers are "replaced" as soon as their payload is dropped, making it a stream of constant fighter attack, which also justifies it's cost.
The cost of SO Carrier is not in line with cores for obvious reason - it's not a core. It also corresponds to a hidden limit that it otherwise untold: 1/2/4/6 base fighter bays for sizes. Any mod ship having beyond that fighter bay count would be considered overmodded and the mod will be providing more power than it should, so it'll just ban you from using.

For Swarm I have specified that the production power is evenly distributed among all flight decks.
The time multiplier is (base+bonus)/base, so it'll always be penalty and penalty is much harsher for low base deck ones.
For example, an Odyssey has base of 2 decks. Adding 2 using swarm core means it's replacement time is 4/2=2, doubled.
The cost *was* -/-/30/40 but 30 for a single deck on a cruiser seems too expensive for what it is.

Skirmish was the last hullmod added and TBH I like your suggestion. Still need some juggling in terms of what it can/should do and what flavor it brings.
I was already tired when designing it and I want to make the initial release have at least three flavors to choose from.
I'll need some more test play to see what numbers feel right but not overpowered. Agility is a huge deal in most situations so there must be a meaningful malus that make it a bit niche instead of straight good.

For the replacement time stuff on the Swarm core, yeah that's what I thought. Not sure it's there a concise way of describing that more precisely though, so it'll do fine for now.

Something I noticed while testing the Skirmish core, it seems bombers with unguided munitions (like Perditions or Kassadari Calivers) can't hit the side of a barn - they can't seem to compensate for the lost turn rate, and when combined with the increased speed, at least one torpedo goes way off target from each strike, even against completely stationary targets like the Tart's borg cube. Unintended side effect, though that probably works in it's favor for balancing.

For the Bastion core, the range increase was perfectly fine, no comments there. With the fighters tied to the mothership, they need to have more range in order to get things done. It's the missile rate of fire buff that piqued my curiosity - pretty much nothing uses that kind of buff except for a handful of modded fighters. What was the idea behind this?

Ahh, I misunderstood what Fighter Overclock does! It just cuts the base replacement time to 0 and reduces the replacement rate loss to 0 rather than just reducing the replacement rate loss (Expanded Deck Crews got stuck in my head). Might be better to just say "base replacement time set to 0 seconds and replacement rate never drops" or something like that. I can understand the power now; combine this with Swarm Core to nullify the replacement time nerf, get more fighters, and then just spam expendable fighters like Talons that constantly respawn with fresh ordnance. A build that even Megas would love, heh.

For the replacement time stuff on the Swarm core, yeah that's what I thought. Not sure it's there a concise way of describing that more precisely though, so it'll do fine for now.

For the Bastion core, the range increase was perfectly fine, no comments there. With the fighters tied to the mothership, they need to have more range in order to get things done. It's the missile rate of fire buff that piqued my curiosity - pretty much nothing uses that kind of buff except for a handful of modded fighters. What was the idea behind this?

The flash bomber was in my mind giving that specific rate of fire buff. I’m not sure why anyone would do that but...

Thinking it twice I maybe just replace it with missile speed. I don’t think missile specialization skill and ECCM apply to fighters?
That said I’m not going to throw a hotfix for that one.
It’ll be patched along next major update.

Edit: you sure you don’t want the rescue shuttle now? Overclock talon crew loss is mind blowingly high...
I might want to go one step further doubling fighter taken damage so it’s more calculated risk instead of allowing carelessly pouring out fighters and win. However it will depend on feedback and how it would interact with other mods.

Rescue Shuttles are cheap enough and when combined with Fighter Uplink to keep crew casualties down. Or just bring along a couple Valkyries to haul along as many unwilling pilots as you need, heh. I think the PPT is harsh enough that you don't need to nerf the fighters.

I like the sounds of Manufactory Load Balancer, though it looks like it'll be another Expanded Deck Crews mod - slap it on every carrier that's got more than one flight deck. But that's more because of a complete lack of hull mods for carriers rather than the hull mod itself, and your Modern Carriers mod goes a long way to resolving some of that.

By the way, I do like the sounds of cheaper hull mods that does one specific thing rather than a package deal like the other previous ones - these follow more along the lines of regular combat ship hull mods than stuff like SO or Heavy Armor that do one specific thing, akin to the carrier cores you've got here. Might be worth pursuing more things like that so carriers are more flexible in choosing how to buff their fighters.

Without playing I can immediately think of ships I'd use Bastion and Swarm on - I'd have to try skirmish to see how it feels. On the one hand, thunders would go sooo fast. On the other, I'm not sure they'd be able to damage anything! Overclock again I'd need to try it on a few things to see.

... I wonder how Longbows + Bastion would do... +50% range on burst PD would be real good. Even something like Talons to be rapid firing their missiles would be real good especially with -50% damage... My favorite thing from waaaay back when was to pilot a Hammerhead with a Broadsword wing set to escort it (because the broadsword would exactly fit in its hangar space). I wonder if converted hangar + bastion could do that again. Otoh its a ton of OP.

Looks neat! I'll give this a download and check it out, I do love me some fighters.

Without playing I can immediately think of ships I'd use Bastion and Swarm on - I'd have to try skirmish to see how it feels. On the one hand, thunders would go sooo fast. On the other, I'm not sure they'd be able to damage anything! Overclock again I'd need to try it on a few things to see.

... I wonder how Longbows + Bastion would do... +50% range on burst PD would be real good. Even something like Talons to be rapid firing their missiles would be real good especially with -50% damage... My favorite thing from waaaay back when was to pilot a Hammerhead with a Broadsword wing set to escort it (because the broadsword would exactly fit in its hangar space). I wonder if converted hangar + bastion could do that again. Otoh its a ton of OP.

I precluded all ships with 0 base fighter bay from installing these new hullmods because I was afraid people doing the weird trick of installing a hull mod, build the thing in and then remove the conversion mod. Especially with the swarm one, the calculation will immediately error out because attempting to divide by 0.

However I do think it’s reasonable to allow converted hangars to utilize non-swarm cores. The OP cost is very high in first place. Let me patch that up next weekend.

FYI, the mod prv already did a last-stand sorta thing with their uh, gravi-something reversion core. Any destroyed carrier with the hullmod spawns a swarm-host ship to keep it's wings fighting.

I was thinking the shard spawner equivalent, thus there is no additional host ship involved.
But since there already exists an equivalent I’ll skip on that one.

That aside, the new hull mods look interesting. Emergency Launch Sequence for expendable fighters, and Manufactury Load Balance for when you have mixed fighters. The speed and maneuverability debuffs for Fighter Heavy Armaments are pretty harsh, though - some capital ships could outrun those fighters! The only saving grace for slow fighters that use it is that fighter speed is automatically boosted to the carrier's speed, plus 20su on top when set to Regroup so they can keep up.

An alternative would be only bombers take 40% penalty and all others take less, making heavy fighters a bit more viable. However since some non-bomber fighters do utilize missile weaponry it makes things complicated, and I don’t want to make the mod effect extremely complicated that becomes otherwise hard to explain.

An alternative may be just separate it into two mods: heavy guns and heavy bomb bays. But then I doubt how many people would be using heavy gun if it’s not bastion, and if the heavy gun paired with skirmish just free rate of fire.